Secrets of a Court Mediator: Forgiveness and Mediation

Grudges and hostility aren’t free, according to Sam Imperati. With over 30 years experience as a “pit bull” trial attorney, judge and finally mediator, Sam has seen it all, including litigious winners who walk away dissatisfied. The pragmatic forgiveness he brought to his own divorce helps him shine light on a different path for vengeful clients — one of relationship and resolution that brings a rich satisfaction to all involved.

Sam Imperati, JD

Sam Imperati is the executive director of ICMResolutions, a Seattle-based national dispute-resolution provider offering mediation, facilitation, decision-making, team-building, and training services. His multi-disciplinary approach combines classic facilitation with the result-oriented tools of mediation to help polarized participants reach agreement both upstream and downstream. He is also a grandfather, a midfielder on an over-68 men’s soccer team, and a stand-up comedy winner.

Dr. Fred Luskin

Dr. Fred Luskin is the director of the Stanford University Forgiveness Projects. He’s also the author of the bestselling books, Forgive for Good and Forgive for Love. Forgive for Good is the best-selling self-help book published on the topic of forgiveness. Fred has been interviewed hundreds of times in worldwide media, including The New York Times, O Magazine, the Los Angeles Times, Time Magazine, Huffington Post, and he has been featured on the Today Show and CBS Morning News. Learn more at fredluskin.com.

Dr. Eileen Borris

Dr. Eileen Borris is a clinical and political psychologist who has pioneered the concept of political forgiveness on the individual, community and national level. She has addressed the United Nations and has worked for over 30 years to build peace in areas of conflict around the world, including Rwanda, South Africa, Liberia, Nigeria, Ethiopia, and the Middle East. Eileen is the author of Finding Forgiveness: A 7 Step Program for Letting Go of Anger and Bitterness and the creator of Healing the Divide, a program that trains leaders and other individuals interested in applying the principles of political forgiveness to transform their lives and create social change.

Be Part of Eileen’s Community

Subscribe to Political Forgiveness: Voices of Peace podcast on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Subscribe to Political Forgiveness newsletter at drborris.com or on LinkedIn.

Eileen’s book: Finding Forgiveness: A 7 Step Program for Letting Go of Anger and Bitterness

Timestamps

00:00 Relationship or Blame?

00:18 Welcome and Introductions

02:10 From Trial Lawyer to Mediator

03:43 Divorce and Pragmatic Forgiveness

05:19 Why You Cannot Force Forgiveness

08:17 Humanizing Litigation Choices

10:56 Listening, Questions and Responsibility

22:03 Binary Choice: Relationship vs Case

25:33 Big Wins Public Policy Mediations

28:33 Fight Nice and Ongoing Relationships

31:36 Final Takeaways, Resolution Humor

34:49 Resources, Thanks and Closing

A Pitbull Attorney Changes Heart

How many of you have ever needed to go to court? Perhaps it was for a divorce, a custody hearing, or a settlement dispute. Some of these experiences can become very contentious, and at times people think they need a “pit bull” attorney. Well, do I have a guy for you! But wait. This “pit bull” attorney has just gone soft, or so some people might think. Why? After going through it all, having been a hard-charging trial attorney and then a judge, he saw something unfortunate happen to his clients, even those who actually won — they often walked away frustrated, deflated, and further from a real solution. He then had an epiphany that propelled him from courtroom combat to mediation, making him someone who truly wanted to resolve conflict rather than send people home feeling empty inside.

Sam Imperati and Pragmatic Forgiveness

I am talking about Sam Imperati, an attorney who represented labor unions and their members. He was a trial attorney ensconced in an adversarial system who later became a judge. He saw it all when the epiphany came — that there must be a better way. Going through his own divorce, which wasn’t his idea, added to this thinking. He didn’t want to make things ugly or drag the kids in. This is where the story gets interesting. Sam recognized that he could indulge his emotionality and, frankly, his anger at what happened and why, but he didn’t want to hurt his kids. He felt something different could be done. And that is how he got his foot in the door with forgiveness. It was a pragmatic choice. He wanted to let go of his emotional burden and not become bitter and angry. He also realized if people could just get to that place, that in itself is very powerful—even transformative. And this can impact everyone around you in a much more positive way.

Choosing an Island

So Sam began to think: How do good mediators really help people resolve conflicts? It starts with establishing neutrality, weighing the options, and choosing a course of action that serves them well. Sam likes to bring in a bit of Dr. Phil: “How is this working for you?” “Tell me more.” “Can you imagine a place where that wouldn’t be burdensome?” Sam would compare where they are now—“pain island”—a place where the cost is holding onto grievances and grudges, with “pleasure island,” where they enjoy life. But in order to get to pleasure island, you will just have to forgive.

Pragmatic. That was the word Sam used, which got him thinking about forgiveness. That word opened the door to something deeper, which Sam didn’t realize at the time. Although Sam would never use the label “spiritual” for himself or call himself altruistic, he may have been leading his clients down that path. Let me explain.

The Sound of Inner Shifting

So much of what happens during mediation is a battle of the egos. My side must prevail. I am right, you are wrong. That kind of thing. But what if we really do want a good outcome for everyone—not just one person taking all the spoils, only to feel empty from the transaction a few hours later? To do this, we need to change our thinking and allow inner shifts to occur. What if, instead of thinking we must win at all costs, we recognize that what serves the truth and a livable future is more important? Instead of being stuck in fear, we choose to listen without demonizing. And what if we stop fixating on ourselves and begin to realize that caring just a little about someone else can be really beneficial? Simple. Maybe? Inner shifts can happen when we move from blame to responsibility and from reactivity to discernment, when we reject humiliating speech and restore relationships. We have now touched upon spiritual principles: truthfulness, compassion, repair, and, of course, forgiveness. Taking responsibility, acknowledging what harm may have been done, and being accountable are the issues that forgiveness addresses.

Sam brings this down to the nitty-gritty by humanizing reality, the stuff people can relate to. What would your life look like if you could just let go? We have to meet people where they are before we can move them along any kind of process. That is being pragmatic.

To hear Sam Imperati’s story in his own words, check out my latest podcast episode, Secrets of a Court Mediator: Forgiveness and Mediation. Subscribe to Voices of Peace: Personal Forgiveness on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

“I should be a statistic”

Mark Goodman spent part of his teen years living homeless on the streets and beaches of Los Angeles. For him it was safer than the alternative: remaining in his childhood home with an alcoholic, abusive father. Mark and his brothers endured abuse so severe it led one of them to take his own life.

In this frank discussion Mark shares how he discovered forgiveness, embraced radical responsibility for his own life, and reconciled with his father. To see the generosity and bright light shining in Mark now, you would never know his remarkable journey. Fred and I are so grateful to him for sharing his story.

Mark Goodman

Mark Goodman is an author, speaker, and executive director of 70×7 Path to Forgiveness. His own story, surviving unspeakable abuse as a child and later homelessness on the streets of LA, led him to discover the transforming power of forgiveness, and with it, freedom from resentment and shame. For nearly a decade, Mark has drawn on a blend of psychology, personal experience, and hard-won wisdom to help hundreds of others find that same freedom: restored marriages, healed relationships, lives pulled back from the edge.

Connect with Mark Goodman

His book: Forgiving A Good Man

Website: 70×7.org/markgoodman

LinkedIn: marklgoodman

Dr. Fred Luskin

Dr. Fred Luskin is the director of the Stanford University Forgiveness Projects. He’s also the author of the bestselling books, Forgive for Good and Forgive for Love. Forgive for Good is the best-selling self-help book published on the topic of forgiveness. Fred has been interviewed hundreds of times in worldwide media, including The New York Times, O Magazine, the Los Angeles Times, Time Magazine, Huffington Post, and he has been featured on the Today Show and CBS Morning News. Learn more at fredluskin.com.

Dr. Eileen Borris

Dr. Eileen Borris is a clinical and political psychologist who has pioneered the concept of political forgiveness on the individual, community and national level. She has addressed the United Nations and has worked for over 30 years to build peace in areas of conflict around the world, including Rwanda, South Africa, Liberia, Nigeria, Ethiopia, and the Middle East. Eileen is the author of Finding Forgiveness: A 7 Step Program for Letting Go of Anger and Bitterness and the creator of Healing the Divide, a program that trains leaders and other individuals interested in applying the principles of political forgiveness to transform their lives and create social change.

Be Part of Eileen’s Community

Subscribe to Political Forgiveness: Voices of Peace podcast on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Subscribe to Political Forgiveness newsletter at drborris.com or on LinkedIn.

Eileen’s book: Finding Forgiveness: A 7 Step Program for Letting Go of Anger and Bitterness

Timestamps

00:00 Choose Responsibility

00:19 Season Two Welcome

01:13 Meet Mark Goodman

02:58 Masks And Hidden Pain

04:23 Detroit Abuse Revealed

05:18 Escape To LA Homelessness

06:00 Brothers Coping And Loss

07:57 Cheyenne Trauma Turning Point

08:47 Brian Tracy Forgiveness Breakthrough

10:45 Boundaries And Reconciliation

11:54 The Wimpiest Apology

14:30 Keys To Your Freedom

16:30 From Story To Nonprofit Mission

19:34 What 70 Times 7 Means

21:18 Unforgiveness As Infection

22:53 Final Message You Have A Choice

23:42 Resources And How To Reach Mark

24:37 Closing Thanks And Coaching

Who Do I Need to Forgive? Everybody.

“I’ve eaten from dumpsters and dined with kings, but neither is all that satisfying.” —Mark Goodman, Forgiving a Good Man

These are the words of Mark Goodman, an ordinary man with an extraordinary story to tell. Mark’s journey begins in Detroit, where he grew up in an abusive home marked by pain and trauma. The abuse came not only from his father but also from his brothers. It was so horrific that, by comparison, living homeless on the streets of Los Angeles seemed like an adventure.

Many of you reading this may have experienced a similar background and can, at least in part, imagine what Mark endured. But there is more to his story and to his spiritual awakening than anyone could have anticipated. A life marked by trauma and unimaginable abuse became a story of freedom through forgiveness.

Abandonment and Abuse

Because of the emotional turmoil he experienced early in life, Mark learned to take care of himself. For him, neglect felt like being “unceremoniously abandoned.” In his book, Forgiving a Good Man, Mark relates how the trauma led to anxiety, depression, and difficulty maintaining healthy relationships.

Sexual abuse was also part of Mark’s life. Like many survivors of sexual assault, he blamed himself. He experienced abuse at home and was later taken advantage while hitchhiking back home from California to Detroit. It was terrifying, but thankfully he survived. One of Mark’s most important realizations was that when you are abused, you are not to blame. By forgiving the abuser, survivors may also begin to forgive themselves for what they mistakenly believe they did or failed to do that caused the abuse.

Abuse does not happen every minute of every day. For Mark, one blessing came when he was able to attend Ben Lippen, a Christian boarding school, during his high school years. The school was strict and highly disciplined, yet Mark loved every minute of it. It gave him a chance to escape an abusive situation, at least for a while, and offered him what everyone in an abusive situation needs: a place to breathe, to feel safe, and to begin imagining another kind of life. At Ben Lippen, Mark experienced hope. He discovered that time spent with positive, supportive people can awaken the possibility of forgiveness.

“I was young and innocent. How could I be responsible?”

Life can throw us punches. It can also give us gifts. Often, when we are paying attention, we recognize the gift at the moment we need it most. This happened to Mark when he moved to Florida and was invited by a business associate to attend Brian Tracy’s seminar, The Psychology of Achievement.

The message was that we are free to choose the quality of our emotional life and that we can be free from pain, shame, and blame. Mark’s negative emotions had kept him stuck. He relates in his book that he began to see he had a choice: to hold on to resentment toward the people and events that caused him pain, or to start letting it go. As Tracy said, “There is a direct relationship between your acceptance of the personal responsibility for your emotional well-being and the elimination of your negative feelings.”

Of course, Mark resisted these words, as most of us might. Doesn’t this man know what happened to me? he wondered. I was young and innocent. How could I be responsible? What Mark had to learn was that, although he was not responsible for the abuse, he was responsible for his future from that point forward. The blame game begins when we put on the cloak of victimhood. If he wanted to be free from pain, he had to accept responsibility for his emotional well-being. That realization set Mark on the path of forgiveness and opened the door to forgiving his father.

Forgiveness, the Ultimate Freedom

Forgiveness, he discovered, is not about excusing the other person or minimizing what they have done. It is about freeing ourselves from the emotional burden we continue to carry. In Mark’s terms, we forgive because we deserve the freedom that forgiveness brings. For him, forgiveness is the ultimate freedom.

We learn so much about ourselves when we begin the journey of forgiveness. It can be difficult, even painful, but if we persist, it can become deeply rewarding. Mark embraced this journey and transformed his life in ways he could not have imagined. His experience was so profound that he dedicated his life to helping others experience the freedom forgiveness can bring.

Today, Mark is the founder of 70×7 Path to Forgiveness, a nonprofit dedicated to spreading the message of freedom through forgiveness. If you met him today, you would see his generosity and bright light. Through this remarkable journey, Mark learned to open his heart, especially through the practice of forgiveness. He shares his deeply personal story in his book, Forgiving a Good Man: An Abuse Survivor’s Story of Freedom Through Forgiveness. You can also hear more of his story on my podcast, Voices of Peace: Personal Forgiveness.

To hear Mark Goodman’s story in his own words, check out my latest podcast episode, “I should be a statistic.” Subscribe to Voices of Peace: Personal Forgiveness on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Breaking the Silence: Childhood Sexual Abuse and Forgiveness

When Andy Woodward showed remarkable talent for football as a boy, it brought him to the attention of the coach who sexually abused him for years. After bottling up his emotions and suffering panic attacks on the football pitch, Andy made the extraordinary journey from silence to speaking out on a public stage. How did he find the courage to confront a powerful coach and a prominent football organization in the UK? In this podcast Andy talks about transforming pain through the practice of forgiveness.

Andy Woodward

Andy Woodward blew the whistle on the sexual abuse of junior players in British football in 2016. His story helped spark a global conversation about the misuse of authority and trust in sports, and gave a voice to countless survivors who needed to be heard. Through his book Position of Trust and the BBC drama Floodlights, Andy is inspiring people worldwide with the message that healing is possible and each of us can help create a safer future.

Learn more about Andy

Facebook

Instagram

Tiktok

Andy’s book: “Position of Trust”

BBC drama: “Floodlights”

Dr. Fred Luskin

Dr. Fred Luskin is the director of the Stanford University Forgiveness Projects. He’s also the author of the bestselling books, Forgive for Good and Forgive for Love. Forgive for Good is the best-selling self-help book published on the topic of forgiveness. Fred has been interviewed hundreds of times in worldwide media, including The New York Times, O Magazine, the Los Angeles Times, Time Magazine, Huffington Post, and he has been featured on the Today Show and CBS Morning News. Learn more at fredluskin.com.

Dr. Eileen Borris

Dr. Eileen Borris is a clinical and political psychologist who has pioneered the concept of political forgiveness on the individual, community and national level. She has addressed the United Nations and has worked for over 30 years to build peace in areas of conflict around the world, including Rwanda, South Africa, Liberia, Nigeria, Ethiopia, and the Middle East. Eileen is the author of Finding Forgiveness: A 7 Step Program for Letting Go of Anger and Bitterness and the creator of Healing the Divide, a program that trains leaders and other individuals interested in applying the principles of political forgiveness to transform their lives and create social change.

Be Part of Eileen’s Community

Subscribe to Political Forgiveness: Voices of Peace podcast on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Subscribe to Political Forgiveness newsletter at drborris.com or on LinkedIn.

Eileen’s book: Finding Forgiveness: A 7 Step Program for Letting Go of Anger and Bitterness

Timestamps

00:00 Heart of Peace

00:15 Meet Andy Woodward

01:58 Football Dream Turns Dark

03:30 Trapped in Systemic Abuse

06:08 Aftermath and Breaking Silence

10:02 From Exposure to Forgiveness

13:13 Spirituality and Purpose

22:10 Energy Balance Practices

25:38 Final Takeaways and Closing

Borderline Mothers, Abusive Fathers. How Do Daughters Survive?

A mother is the anchor of her child’s life. By acting as a role model and providing a solid base of support, she nurtures and helps her children grow from total dependence to beautifully independent adults. But what if your mother has a borderline personality disorder? What if she rages out of control and catches you in a sea of emotion? Then the dance begins. You want the closeness, and she pushes you away. She then draws you in, and at times you cannot break away. So much drama, so much trauma, and so much forgiveness needed.

Borderline Mothers and Parva’s Story

It is a difficult thing to carry the belief that, at times, your mother hated you and took those feelings with her to her grave. This was Parva Moshiri’s story. As a child, how can you take responsibility for a mother? How can you heal and forgive a mother when you realize you don’t have a mother? It is particularly difficult to forgive a parent who wasn’t able to parent and is so capable of being cruel. Yet despite her mother’s behavior, Parva was her caretaker in later years.

In Parva’s case, she never entertained the thought of forgiveness. But when the idea finally entered her mind, Parva began to think about how she would feel if she could forgive and let go. Could this emotional burden that she was carrying ever be lifted? Then one evening, Parva was sitting in her backyard when, for no reason, she began thinking about the good side of her mother. She realized that her mother wasn’t all bad and that she really did love her and took care of her the best way she knew how. She also realized that she herself turned out okay. When her perspective changed, she was able to forgive.

Wow! When we understand what forgiveness really means, that it is a choice we make, and that we can “change the channel” and see things differently, we can begin to release our emotional pain. Are we going to focus on the woundedness of that person, or are we going to see it more fully, recognize that there was goodness as well, and let that goodness stay with us? This is what Parva did.

Abusive Fathers and Judith’s story

Like Borderline mothers, toxic fathers can leave a long-term emotional and psychological impact through their consistently harmful and abusive behavior. This was Judith’s story. While she can now talk about her father with love in her heart, that wasn’t always the case. She grew up in a dysfunctional family with a father who was dominant and aggressive most of the time. Judith was never allowed to have emotions, and if any feelings slipped out, her father became angry, so her feelings were tucked away.

Judith’s mother felt so ashamed and depressed that she attempted to take her own life—but luckily, Judith was there to talk her out of it. At that time roles were reversed, and Judith became the caregiver for her mother, while also dealing with an absent father and caring for her younger siblings. The fighting in the house got so bad that Judith could only sleep with her headset on, listening to the heavy metal band Metallica as loud as she could. Things were so bad that she found the music calming!

When Judith was 25, her mother passed away after a long illness. Two years later Judith moved to Buenos Aires, and, although she didn’t speak the language yet, she needed to move away from the family drama. Finally having some time for herself, she began to experience anger within, the anger she had repressed for so many years. She tried to run it off, literally, starting with 5K runs, then 10K, 21K, and finally an entire marathon, but even at that finish line, she was still angry.

Judith realized that she finally had to face her anger and began asking herself questions. “Did I really think my father had bad intentions?” Her ego’s answer was, “Yes, of course, because otherwise, why would he have done this?” But then she lingered with the question a few days longer and had to admit to herself, “Nah, I don’t really think so, right?” He did the same thing with anybody else in the environment. Her father chased away everybody who loved him. So no, it wasn’t personal.

It took years, but at the moment when Judith felt like she had forgiven him, her mother showed up in a dream. She didn’t say anything, but her smile was saying everything, like, “It’s okay, Judith. I’m fine. I’m good. You can now let it go.”

The relationship with Judith’s father never became easy, because he didn’t change—but Judith did. She set clear boundaries to protect herself, and when new incidents would happen, Judith was able to forgive more quickly. At the end of her father’s life, Judith chose to take care of him, being true to herself in wanting to show him love before his passing.

From Failed Survival Strategies to Shared Humanity

These beautiful stories illustrate a pattern that seems to emerge with people. When we get angry, we sometimes deny the anger or run away from it. Unfortunately that trauma stays with you until you finally get to a point of saying, “Hey, it’s not going anywhere and I’m tired of this. Enough is enough. There has to be a better way.” This becomes that turning point for so many people.

Another issue is that we feel our hurt is something unique and special. We don’t recognize just how much suffering there is everywhere, and we exaggerate our own and minimize everyone else’s so we can stay stuck. And that is one of the biggest obstacles: we keep on telling this self-pitying, self-centered story over and over again, and we can keep it going for years and decades until something happens to shift the story.

This was so true for Judith. And at the same she felt the opposite: For years she minimized her own situation, hurt and suffering, since it was her “normal.” She saw everyone else’s hurt as way more serious. It took her years to see and admit that what happened wasn’t okay.

It is so easy to stay stuck in the victim role. We think, “I’m the innocent one here, you’re to blame.” Believing that we are innocent and morally superior is a major obstacle to our healing until we realize, no, we’re not so innocent either; we’re human; we make mistakes. Once we begin to acknowledge our humanness, we can begin to see that in other people, too.

What was most touching about these stories was how both Parva and Judith chose to take care of their parents in spite of their hurtful parenting. Both women held onto their humanity, what it means to be deeply human. Their actions were remarkable. The lesson is that you can be a very loving human being and still set appropriate boundaries. This kind of message is what can help heal this world. This is also at the heart of forgiveness. On the other side of forgiveness is peace and freedom—and when people get to the other side, that’s when they can look back and say, “My goodness, this journey was really worth it.”

To hear Parva and Judith’s story in their own words, check out my latest podcast episode, Healing Dysfunctional Families Through Compassion and Forgiveness. Subscribe to Voices of Peace: Personal Forgiveness on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Conflicted Caregiving: Forgiving Illness

Blood is thicker than water—and family also has the unique power to push all of our buttons. In this episode two guest share candidly about a beast rarely spoken of: resentment against ourselves or loved ones going through illness.

Karen Krebs is still working to forgive herself and her body through multiple rounds of cancer treatment and graciously accepts on-the-spot coaching from Fred and Eileen.

Barbara Hunt was finally able to overcome her stiff upper lip and emotional denial and recognize underlying resentment at caring for her aging mother. This set her on a path of becoming a forgiveness specialist herself.

This very special episode is inspiration for anyone in the middle of a forgiveness process, and in the end finding the beauty and balance between self-love and being a caretaker.

Karen Krebs

Karen Krebs is a healthcare executive with more than 30 years of experience in behavioral health and medicine, committed to helping individuals and families access treatment, begin recovery, and rebuild their lives. She brings a compassionate, informed perspective to navigating today’s complex healthcare system. With roots in New York and Massachusetts, Karen now resides in West Seattle, where she is a devoted caregiver to her 94-year-old father, who lives with her.

Barbara J Hunt

Barbara J Hunt is a forgiveness specialist and advocate, speaker, workshop leader, global peace visionary, award-winning and bestselling author of “Forgiveness Made Easy: The Revolutionary Guide to Moving Beyond Your Past and Truly Letting Go.” She has over 30 years experience in personal and spiritual development as a mentor, coach and group facilitator. She works in private practice internationally, and is also a musician and singer-songwriter. Connect with Barbara at forgivenessmadeeasy.co.uk and her YouTube channel.

Dr. Fred Luskin

Dr. Fred Luskin is the director of the Stanford University Forgiveness Projects. He’s also the author of the bestselling books, Forgive for Good and Forgive for Love. Forgive for Good is the best-selling self-help book published on the topic of forgiveness. Fred has been interviewed hundreds of times in worldwide media, including The New York Times, O Magazine, the Los Angeles Times, Time Magazine, Huffington Post, and he has been featured on the Today Show and CBS Morning News. Learn more at fredluskin.com.

Dr. Eileen Borris

Dr. Eileen Borris is a clinical and political psychologist who has pioneered the concept of political forgiveness on the individual, community and national level. She has addressed the United Nations and has worked for over 30 years to build peace in areas of conflict around the world, including Rwanda, South Africa, Liberia, Nigeria, Ethiopia, and the Middle East. Eileen is the author of Finding Forgiveness: A 7 Step Program for Letting Go of Anger and Bitterness and the creator of Healing the Divide, a program that trains leaders and other individuals interested in applying the principles of political forgiveness to transform their lives and create social change.

Be Part of Eileen’s Community

Subscribe to Political Forgiveness: Voices of Peace podcast on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Subscribe to Political Forgiveness newsletter at drborris.com or on LinkedIn.

Eileen’s book: Finding Forgiveness: A 7 Step Program for Letting Go of Anger and Bitterness

Timestamps

00:00 Emotional Shutdown

00:15 Season Two Welcome

00:55 Caregiving and Illness

01:25 Meet Karen and Barbara

02:52 Karen Cancer Wakeup Call

06:05 Caregiver Stress and Resentment

06:56 Self Forgiveness Struggle

09:32 Barbara Young Caregiver Story

11:06 Resentment and Forgiveness Path

12:29 Host Reflections on Caregiving

17:10 Choosing Caregiving

20:30 Tools for Self Forgiveness

21:53 Culture Duty and Boundaries

23:41 Resentment as a Signal

25:23 Freedom and Choice Reframing

27:38 Final Messages and Takeaways

32:46 Closing Thanks and Resources

Forgiving Illness in Ourselves and Those We Love

All of us at one point in our lives deal with illness, and for many, it could be a chronic illness or a life-threatening illness. For all of us, we will ultimately face an illness that brings us to the end of our lives. We may also be caregivers for someone dear to us who is grappling with an illness. I had the good fortune of talking to two beautiful women: Karen Krebs, a cancer survivor, and Barbara Hunt, who spent time as a caregiver to her mother as she was dealing with MS.

Karen Krebs’ Story

When Karen was diagnosed with cancer the first time around, it made her step back and recognize the importance of taking care of herself. She had been caring for her 91-year-old mother and now swore to her daughters and herself that she needed to be number 1. After taking a trip to Bali with some friends, Karen had an epiphany. She was going to move from Las Vegas to Seattle to be closer to her adult children and grandson, only to realize she needed to bring her 93-year-old father with her and become his caregiver. The vow to take care of herself first flew out the window. Cancer reared its ugly head once again. Karen, realizing she was still putting herself last, and now dealing with a second bout of cancer, became an emotional wreck. She felt she had failed her body and could not forgive, especially herself.

Cancer Patient Research: Guided Imagery and Music

Karen’s story rang true to me. My mother was dealing with cancer at the time I was in graduate school, working on my doctorate in psychology. Since cancer was such a big part of my life, I became very interested in understanding if there was a certain psychological make-up of individuals dealing with breast cancer. According to the research, there was a particular pattern: Women tended to put other people’s needs first, while often being out of touch with their own. I created what could be described as a musical Rorschach. I asked the study participants to describe the imagery they experienced while listening to music in a relaxed state. I wanted to see if I could differentiate cancer patients from the clinically depressed and the normal population to see if there was any difference in the imagery that was reported. In fact, there was a discernible difference. Cancer patients seem to have fewer images with less emotional content than the other two populations.

I continued to work with these women after the study using a process called Guided Imagery and Music (GIM). Over time, a common theme began to emerge. The women realized that they were so busy taking care of others that they neglected themselves, not recognizing that they even had needs of their own or how badly they had shortchanged themselves. As we began working more deeply, they realized they needed to learn to love and care for themselves, which meant there were times when it was okay not to put others first. For many, this became a very important journey to self forgiveness.

This was Karen’s story. She not only needed to learn how to forgive herself, she also realized that she did not create her cancer, that cancer was not her fault and that her biggest lesson was to stop blaming herself, especially for something that was out of her control.

Barbara Hunt and Her Mother

Barbara Hunt had a very different story. When Barbara was 15, her mother started to have symptoms of multiple sclerosis. By the time she was 18, her mother was in a wheelchair, and by the time Barbara was 20, she left her university to help at home. Barbara was helping with her mother’s basic functions, such as feeding her and helping her to the bathroom. In some regards, it was a bit of a shock for Barbara, and eventually she went back to her university, and her mother was taken to a nursing home, where she spent the last eight years of her life. Barbara felt like she had no mother, even though her mother was still alive.

A while later, Barbara was taking a personal training class, and one of the exercises was listing resentments. A thought crossed Barbara’s mind that she might be holding resentments towards her mother, and then she realized that instead of dealing with her mother’s illness, she shut down and was in emotional denial. She didn’t want to admit that, in fact, she did have resentment. That is what sent Barbara on a journey of forgiveness. Barbara realized that she felt that she wasn’t allowed to express her true feelings, that she had to be the dutiful daughter. This was similar to how Karen was feeling, taking care of her 94-year-old father.

Conflicted Caregiving

So how did both of these women overcome their obstacles to forgiveness, to forgive becoming ill, and for the conflicting emotions that we experience in caring for our loved ones?

What was missing in these narratives is that we have a choice. We don’t have to do something if there is a should or have to. The other side of the coin is when we choose to take care of another human being willingly; that is one of life’s most praiseworthy and noble qualities and needs to be honored. To spend time with someone who is in pain and unable to help themselves is one of the most profound ways to show love for another and can be a beautiful choice. This has so much to do with forgiveness, because once we’ve made a choice, it changes the way we feel about what we are doing. This is when a choice becomes a blessing. When you are clear about the choices you are making, the obstacles to forgiveness lessen.

We also need to look at the meaning we are giving to the event, to watch our thinking about what is taking place, all of which colors the way we feel. These are the cognitive and emotional pieces of our work. This is how we change our attitudes. And it is okay to set boundaries as a loving way to take care of yourself.

The Message in Resentment

It’s at the moment when we feel resentful that we need to remind ourselves of our choices. We can quiet ourselves, listen to our resentments, recognize that they are telling us something we need to hear, and, with that, we can make different choices. With unforgiveness, we make it seem as though we have fewer choices. Recognizing that we have a choice lessens unforgiveness.

This is where forgiveness becomes a spiritual pursuit. It makes us take stock of ourselves and look at our shadow side, recognizing how much is really coming from us. We need to be in the present moment to be aware of our feelings and take responsibility for the difficult things required of us. And to remember forgiveness is a master spiritual discipline and the secret to having a healthy and happy life.

To hear Karen’s and Barbara’s story in thier own words, check out my latest podcast episode, Conflicted Caregiving: Forgiving Illness. Subscribe to Voices of Peace: Personal Forgiveness on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Forgiveness as the Doorway to Love

“Your task is not to seek love, but merely to find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” —Rumi

How many of us have blocked off receiving love because of a need to protect ourselves? This is the theme of Lisa Angelini’s story of forgiveness, shared in this month’s podcast. Lisa had gone through a contentious divorce years ago and, more recently, an unexpected abandonment. As a result of these experiences, Lisa began to realize that she had not only blocked herself off from receiving romantic love but also blocked connections with others because of a need to protect herself from being hurt. Lisa also had an issue with trust—not only with other people but also with herself.

Insights From a Friend

After her divorce, Lisa was sitting with a friend when her friend said, “I don’t know who you are.” Lisa thought at the time that she was an open book: “Just the Italian girl from New York with a big personality.”

Her friend saw things differently: Thinking that you are open with a big personality is very different from being truly authentic and open-hearted. “Lisa, you have so many walls up, brick walls, big, big brick walls with barbed wire,” said her friend. “You have to let someone in.” The last thing Lisa wanted to hear from someone, especially when dealing with a painful moment in her life, is that maybe she should look at things differently. Yet, this is where her journey of forgiveness began. It was a journey that took some time and unfolded in many ways.

A Tale of Two Grandmothers

Growing up, Lisa—like many of us—didn’t have much modeling for forgiveness, but she certainly had modeling for what it looks like when there was unforgiveness. It was her fiery grandmother who first influenced the way she thought about forgiveness. When that grandmother divorced unexpectedly, she held onto resentment for a very long time, continually spewing negativity about her ex. For Lisa, that fire looked very powerful. This pants-wearing, go-get-’em grandmother felt good to Lisa. And that is who Lisa wanted to emulate. She didn’t know what true forgiveness looked like.

It was only when she started working through her own process that Lisa realized she didn’t want to hear any negativity, especially about her ex. She wanted to learn how to let go. She told others, “I’m healing. That’s the father of my children, and I’m going to leave it there as I work through this. That’s not helpful. People think it’s supportive to keep that energy going and add the fuel to the fire.” But for Lisa, it was a constant reminder of all the things and all the hurt that she no longer wanted to be connected to. Only now does Lisa recognize that her other grandmother, a sweet, forgiving, and spiritual woman, was a great teacher—though at the time she saw her kindness and ability to forgive as weakness rather than a source of power.

Yet Another Opportunity to Forgive

Forgiveness isn’t about one-and-done. Life brings on many opportunities for forgiveness, and for Lisa, more was yet to come. She entered into a relationship that suddenly took a hard left and turned her life upside down. It started out as a beautiful soul-connected relationship. Lisa’s spiritual home was Scotland, where he happened to live, and as things progressed over a couple of years, Lisa thought she would live there. And then it suddenly fell apart, seemingly in the snap of a finger.

Lisa didn’t know she’d get to practice forgiveness over and over again through life. She just thought you mastered it once, and that’s it. No, not so. Lisa was in shock, dealing with themes of betrayal and dishonesty. First, she wanted to make sense of things and rationally figure out what she missed—but there was no escaping the “messy middle,” the point in a forgiveness process where we acknowledge the emotional mess we find ourselves in.

Lisa expected that her spiritual practice, therapy and training would protect her from life, only to recognize that it was a form of defensiveness, a weapon against herself. Lisa knew forgiveness takes time, but she considered herself spiritually advanced, so she could get through this quickly. Surprise, surprise, that wasn’t the case. Lisa first denied that she was angry, but with help from a mentor over a three-day process, the anger began to erupt, uncovering the painful grief and all the emotional layers she needed to engage with to arrive at true forgiveness. When we’re honest with ourselves and work through all these layers, that’s where forgiveness isn’t just a pragmatic experience of letting go: It can become transformational. When we get to the point where we truly wish the other person well, we become free. And inside Lisa’s head, when she finally forgave this man, her mind became quieter, calmer, and more peaceful with much less thought.

Gems of Forgiveness

Perhaps learning to forgive is part of our life’s path. All of us have these experiences, and if we can learn from them, we may get a deeper sense of who we are and perhaps how we can really help others. As Nietzsche once said, “Amor fati.” Love your fate. None of us wants to go through painful experiences, yet if you can stick with the forgiveness process and get to the other side, you might just look back and realize there was a gem there.

For everyone, that gem will be different. It might be a deeper connection with your soul, that creative force outside us that can bring greater clarity and wisdom to our lives. You may learn to trust more and be more open to life. You may have a change of outlook, which helps you see people differently and more compassionately, especially for those who are going through similar struggles. And perhaps we grow in humility, accepting that we are human beings, and recognize there are things we’re all going to struggle with and that people do shocking things. If people could have done better, they would have, and when we can recognize that and accept it, we are given the greatest gift of all: learning about unconditional love. And that’s true peace.

To hear Lisa Angelini’s story in her own words, check out my latest podcast episode, “A Sudden Disorienting Heartbreak: Lisa Angelini.” Subscribe to Voices of Peace: Personal Forgiveness on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Shedding the Victim Story: Lyndon Harris on Forgiveness After 9/11

Welcome to Season 2 of Voices of Peace: Personal Forgiveness, with a new name, a new focus and a new co-host, Fred Luskin. Our first guest is Lyndon Harris. Lyndon was an Episcopal priest in New York City when his life after 9/11 fell apart. He dealt with PTSD, personal injustice, divorce, and losing his house — yet until he hit rock bottom, he never thought about forgiveness. When he finally did, forgiveness changed his life in the most amazing way.

Lyndon Harris

Lyndon Harris is a former Episcopal priest, whose journey toward forgiveness began in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001. His work was covered widely in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, and a host of others. But in the aftermath of 9/11, Lyndon’s life fell apart. Forgiveness became the essential tool for reclaiming his life. Harris is a forgiveness teacher now and has been invited to offer keynotes and workshops around the world. He is co-author, with Dr. Luskin of the Forgive for Good Recovery Workbook.

Learn more at lyndonharris.com

Pre-order Lyndon’s memoir, release date June 2026:

Forgiveness at Ground Zero: A Journey of Service, Loss, and Redemption after 9/11

Dr. Fred Luskin

Dr. Fred Luskin is the director of the Stanford University Forgiveness Projects. He’s also the author of the bestselling books, Forgive for Good and Forgive for Love. Forgive for Good is the best-selling self-help book published on the topic of forgiveness. Fred has been interviewed hundreds of times in worldwide media, including The New York Times, O Magazine, the Los Angeles Times, Time Magazine, Huffington Post, and he has been featured on the Today Show and CBS Morning News. Learn more at fredluskin.com.

Dr. Eileen Borris

Dr. Eileen Borris is a clinical and political psychologist who has pioneered the concept of political forgiveness on the individual, community and national level. She has addressed the United Nations and has worked for over 30 years to build peace in areas of conflict around the world, including Rwanda, South Africa, Liberia, Nigeria, Ethiopia, and the Middle East. Eileen is the author of Finding Forgiveness: A 7 Step Program for Letting Go of Anger and Bitterness and the creator of Healing the Divide, a program that trains leaders and other individuals interested in applying the principles of political forgiveness to transform their lives and create social change.

Be Part of Eileen’s Community

Subscribe to Political Forgiveness: Voices of Peace podcast on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Subscribe to Political Forgiveness newsletter at drborris.com or on LinkedIn.

Eileen’s book: Finding Forgiveness: A 7 Step Program for Letting Go of Anger and Bitterness

Timestamps

00:00 Forgiving Imperfection

00:14 Season Two Kickoff

00:49 Meet Fred and Lyndon

02:55 Lyndon Before 9 11

04:40 Witnessing the Attacks

07:56 St. Pauls Relief Mission

09:16 Conflict and Resignation

12:31 Bitterness and Revenge

15:47 Life Falls Apart

18:47 Rock Bottom and Gratitude

22:31 Self Forgiveness Breakthrough

26:35 New Mission and Love

28:41 Advice for the Stuck

30:13 What Forgiveness Means Now

32:33 Closing and Resources